It’s one of the first political adages I heard: “Politics makes strange bedfellows.”

And it’s proved true on many occasions, like 1996 when, as Democratic state chair of California, I campaigned with California’s Republican chair, against Proposition 198, which allowed voters of any party to vote for any candidate in primary elections. 

That measure passed, only to be declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court two years later.

But the “strange bedfellows” adage never proved more true than it did this week (mid-March) when I interviewed John Bolton on my podcast, the Bill Press Pod.

Before that interview, Bolton and I had nothing in common. He’s a lifelong Republican, I’m a lifelong Democrat. He’s a conservative, I’m a liberal. He’s a member of the hawkish foreign policy establishment, I’m basically a pacifist. He’s served three presidents: assistant attorney general under Ronald Reagan; U.S. ambassador to the United Nations under President George W. Bush; national security advisor under Donald Trump. I’ve served none. But Bolton and I found a lot in common when it comes to Ukraine.

First, we both agree that Ukraine’s worth fighting for and defending. Why? Because it’s not just Ukraine at stake, it’s the security of Western Europe and the United States, and the future of democracy over a murderous authoritarian regime. “A Russian victory in Ukraine is going to undermine peace and stability in Europe, and it’s going to threaten our NATO allies,” Bolton told me. “That’s why it’s of interest to the United States.”

Bolton also praised the “heroic” resistance of the Ukrainian people, starting with Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky, and expressed his surprise at the embarrassing performance of the Russian military: “They went after too many targets with too little resources. Their logistics have been horrible, running out of food and gasoline, just a few miles from their own border.”

In terms of American support for Ukraine, Bolton agrees with what support President Biden has provided so far, but still thinks we need to do more. If not a full-fledged “no-fly zone,” then at least a “humanitarian-fly zone,” to protect escape routes for Ukrainian refugees, and somehow getting Russian-made MIG’s to Ukraine. “Maybe they’re not the best planes in the world,” Bolton acknowledges, “but Ukrainian pilots know how to fly them.”

Surprisingly to me, Bolton was strongest in his open criticism of Donald Trump’s role in what’s happening in Ukraine. I asked him if Trump’s infamous phone call to President Zelensky, in which he conditioned American aide on Ukraine’s launching an investigation into Hunter Biden, sent any kind of signal to Putin that the United States was “soft” on Ukraine. “Absolutely,” said Bolton, “and it had a very detrimental effect on one of Ukraine’s highest priorities, which was to establish a good bilateral relationship” with the United States.

And Bolton ridiculed Trump’s assertion that Putin would never have invaded Ukraine were he still in the White House. In fact, Bolton said, Trump “barely knew where Ukraine was. He saw everything through the prism of where Hillary Clinton’s server was being hidden and what Hunter Biden was doing to earn an income. He didn’t understand what the strategic significance of this (Ukraine) was.”

Bolton recounted how he, Chief of Staff John Kelly, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis were relieved when Trump didn’t pull out of NATO at NATO’s 2018 summit, as they’d feared. Had he won a second term, however, Bolton’s convinced Trump would have done so – thereby weakening NATO and, in effect, doing Putin’s work for him. For someone like Trump, Bolton said, “their phrase is ‘useful idiot,’ and they haven’t forgotten that in Moscow.”

Even after Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, Bolton pointed out, Trump still doesn’t get it. At a recent fundraiser, he suggested we paint American fighter planes with Chinese colors and send them in to attack Russian airplanes. Then the Russians would retaliate against the Chinese, and we could just sit on the sidelines and watch. “This is the level of thinking of the former president,” Bolton scoffed. 

Which is why he concluded, “after close observation,” to resign as national security advisor on Sept. 10, 2019.

Finally, while he doesn’t believe Trump will run in 2024, Bolton told me that, unlike former Attorney General Bill Barr, he would not support him if he did. 

“I didn’t think he was fit to be president and I’m not going to vote for somebody who meets that description, no matter who his opponent is.” 

Good for Bolton.