A report on the Buncombe County budget prompted vigorous discussion and an avalanche of questions during an early-morning breakfast meeting of the Asheville-based Council of Independent Business Owners on Jan. 12 at UNC Asheville’s Sherrill Center. 

In the absence of CIBO President Buzzy Cannady, Past President John Carroll served as the meeting’s moderator —and called on Buncombe Commissioner Al Whitesides and Buncombe Budget Director John Hudson to present their budget report.

Whitesides greeted the crowd and said Hudson would present the budget report and he would address questions afterward.

Hudson began his report by noting that he has been the county budget director for a year and a half, but he “has been with Buncombe County for 21-1/2 years in various capacities.”

He added that the Buncombe budget for fiscal 2024 is $436,110,397. Hudson then spent the rest of his presentation reviewing the components of the budget and how they intersect.

For instance, he said the county has four major sources of revenue, including the ad valorem property tax, the local option sales tax, the intergovernmental revenue and the sales and service tax.

“Our largest source of revenue is property taxes — about 62-65 percent of the general fund revenue,” Hudson said.

“We can generally count on a 3 percent  — or $7.6 million— increase in revenue in a non-increase year... Sales tax is our second biggest, but it’s decidedly volatile... Intergovernmental revenue makes up 12-14 percent of general fund revenue...The last major revenue source, sales and service, making up 5-6 percent of general fund revenue; ambulance fees, etc.

As for expenditures, he said the two types are “recurring” and “one-time.”

As for recurring expenses, Hudson listed operating costs (cost of doing business), staff salaries and benefits, program support, transfers (for transportation, early childhood, affordable housing, conservation easements), reparations, education and debt.

Regarding one-time expenses, Hudson listed vehicle purchases and capital outlay, among other categories.

Rhetorically, the budget director then asked, “Where does the money go?”

He answered his own question by listing the following breakout for every tax dollar, including 28 cents to education, 22 cents to human services, 21 cents to publish safety, 16 cents to government operations and 5 cents to debt services. (The remaining 8 cents is scattered across other categories.) 

Hudson acknowledged, “Education costs are jumping... General obligation bonds add an average $5M in annual debt payments for 20 years

He added, “In mid-March, we will receive our first estimates on property tax revenue available, followed by budget work sessions to discuss revenues with the Board of Commissioners. In May, we will have final budget session, with approval expected at the second May meeting” of the commissioners.

During the 35-minute question-and-answer session that followed, an unidentified man asked how the county seems to sometimes have extra funds available. 

“Sometimes revenues come in unexpectedly, or we don’t spend the money budgeted,” Hudson replied.

Another unidentified man asked, “What’s what we spend — as far as education?”

In response, Hudson said, “What the county is doing is funding a gap that the state doesn’t cover.”

The questioner then opined, “So the county is like that last tier — and they (the schools) require what they need.”

Whitesides interjected, “What frustrates me is when you look at the school budget — and it keeps going up. If we gave them everything they wanted this year, it’d be $50 million,” which he termed absurd.

He also asserted, “In the past, the (public) schools had no competition, but now we have the private schools and homeschooling ... With all of that, we’re seeing our (public) school population decline, but when you look at the (school system’s) employment, it’s going up. It’s totally unrealistic. But we want to take care of our kids.”

On a different topic, CIBO member Mark Delk asked, in regard to former County Manager Wanda Greene and others, “How much of that (taxpayer) money was taken and how much have we gotten back?”

Speaking as a county commissioner, Whitesides replied, “We don’t know. We had a county manager who was here for 20 years. But we had changed our redaction process and are only able to go back so far...

“We got back around $5 million, with the county manager and insurance money” lumped together, Whitesides estimated. 

Further, Whitesides said, “If you stop to think, though, through all of this we never lost our (Buncombe’s) Triple A bond rating... To answer your question, I think we got back $5 million.”

After a pause, Whitesides quipped, “I’m just a country boy, too, even though I did 40 years in banking. I can’t tell you what we (the county) recouped and where we are now” in the Greene case.

He added, “Our county — we require that we keep the reserves at 20 percent.” 

H.K. Edgerton then asked Whitesides to define “obligation bonds.” He also asked, “Does this in any way increase affordable housing?”

Whitesides replied that “a lot of the land in the historic African-American district (of Asheville) is owned by the city. We’ve got to address affordable housing throughout the county… We don’t have the (usable) land, folks — that is the issue. That’s why we can get a better response if we use county-owned land.”

An unidentified woman asked, “When will we consolidate the city and county school systems.” 

Whitesides answered, “We’d like to consolidate by 2025. We’re looking at that. I hate that the state mandated us to do it — and then they didn’t give us money to do it.”

An unidentified man asked about “the mandate for cash on hand.”

“For fiscal 2023, we received about $8 million,” Hudson replied.

CIBO member Mac Swicegood said, “On major revenue sources, you really don’t have any money. If this ad valorum property tax doesn’t go through, you’re up the creek” He also said, “We have nothing to show for our expenditure on (public) schools.”

Whitesides, a former school board member and retired banker, appeared to agree with Swicegood’s grim assessment and said, “A lot of people don’t realize Buncombe County is not a nonprofit — it’s a big business.”

Commissioners’s candidate Van Duncan asked, “The county debt service for money spent — do you have a projected remedy for that?

Hudson replied, “That is if we attempted to handle all of the capital projects proposed.”

Whitesides added, “When I came in (as a commissioner), it blew my mind. We were financing vehicles with 20-year obligation bonds. Now we’re going to the banks and financing...”

Congressional candidate Bruce O’Connell asked, “Where does that shortfall money come from?”

Hudson answered, “We have a fund balance because the county has to have cash on hand. So the county does have cash flow.”

O’Connell then said, “Regarding affordable housing, I just got the letter about rentals are going up…. When y’all talk about making things more affordable,” it is not happening.  

O’Connell also asked about the availability of land for affordable housing.

Whitesides replied, “We’re looking at that, especially where the county owns some land in the Candler area....”

Later, Edgerton asked, “Where does this thing called ‘reparations’ fit in the city-county budget? You talk about ‘reparations,’ which I don’t believe in... Where is the money for reparations on this chart” presented in Hudson’s budget presentation?

Smiling at fellow Asheville native Edgerton, Whitesides calmly repied, “We’ve given the reparations commission $2.5 million from the county and $2.1 million from the city.”

Playfully, he told Edgerton, “I’m four years older than you! Well, the whole thing is this, the way I look at reparations, we’re doing things to help the entire community — not just one group. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

“In America it’s become the ‘haves’ and the ‘have-nots,’ whether we want to admit it or not. We’ve got to bring everyone in. I’m concerned about the quality of life for everyone. Wherever you are, that’s the key. When we talk about property taxes, when I go out in the county and hear from people who have to sell off some of their land every few years….”

Persisting, Edgerton asked, “Reparations?”

Grinning, Whitesides returned to the topic from which he had wandered, saying, “You know why I’m frustrated. That (the local reparations commission) will be coming to an end” soon.